Dalibor Petrovic: Navigating Leadership in a Digital Age
The dialogue features a profound exploration of leadership, empowerment, and the transformative impact of technology on society. The salient point of this episode lies in the assertion that curiosity serves as the paramount trait for effective leadership in an era characterized by rapid technological advancement and societal change.
Our guest Dalibor Petrovic, a seasoned leadership catalyst with over 25 years of global experience. This episode delves into the essential qualities that distinguish impactful leaders, highlighting the critical importance of empathy and exceptional communication skills.
It also explores the necessity for leaders to cultivate a mindset of continuous learning and adaptability to navigate the complexities of modern organizational landscapes.
This episode aims to inspire listeners to embrace empowerment in their personal and professional endeavors.
Takeaways
- In today's episode, we explored the profound impact of curiosity as a fundamental trait for effective leadership in a rapidly changing world.
- Dalibor Petrovic emphasized the necessity of exceptional communication skills, including active listening and adaptability to diverse audiences.
- The conversation highlighted the importance of empathy in leadership, enabling leaders to understand and connect with their teams on a deeper level.
- We discussed the significance of balancing strategic focus with tactical execution, ensuring leaders prioritize effectively amidst numerous responsibilities.
- A key takeaway was the notion that leadership development is an ongoing journey rather than a finite event, requiring continuous effort and reflection.
- Finally, we touched on the emerging dynamics of talent management, emphasizing the integration of human and digital resources to navigate future challenges.
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Book Recommendation: "Enlightenment Now" by Stephen Pinker
Find Dalibor Petrovic Online:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daliborpetrovic/
Find us online: https://linktr.ee/nkechinwaforrobinson
Transcript
Great day, amazing human.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Welcome to Empowered at My Skin podcast where our mission is to help 1 billion people in this world think in more empowering ways.
Speaker A:Empowered humans empower humans.
Speaker A:So you are in the right place to become a lead domino for empowerment today.
Speaker A:My name is Nkechi Mwaho Robinson.
Speaker A:I'm not only your host, but I am a vibrant optimist obsessed to bring you empowering content with every single episode.
Speaker A:We will bring you weekly content, alternating between longer episodes with featured guests and a shorter episode called Empowering Bites where I will be joined by my co host, Gabby Memone.
Speaker A:So if you're ready, let the show begin.
Speaker A:Great day, amazing humans.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Welcome to the next episode of Empowered in My Skin, the podcast.
Speaker A:And I'm really, really excited for the YouTubers.
Speaker A:You can obviously see who I'm about to introduce.
Speaker A:That's listening.
Speaker A:I just want to let you know our guest today is a seasoned leadership catalyst with over 25 years of global experience across industries and continents.
Speaker A:With deep expertise in strategy transformation and executive and executive coaching, they help leaders like myself.
Speaker A:I've been, I've been, I've been, I've been part of his class.
Speaker A:Create value and drive impact.
Speaker A:From playing pivotal roles and initiatives, from strategic planning to large scale tech, enable change.
Speaker A:They've helped leaders excel and make a difference.
Speaker A:And so I am so excited for this conversation.
Speaker A:So please join me in a huge, gigantic podcast welcome for Dalbor Petrovic.
Speaker B:Well, thank you very much.
Speaker B:This is such a kind introduction.
Speaker B:Lovely to be with you this afternoon.
Speaker A:I love it and I thank you for saying yes.
Speaker A:And just for context for listeners, I actually was part of, I was selected to be.
Speaker A:To attend the Deloitte Next Gen Leadership Academy.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's for Next gen people that are sort of on the CIO track, I think.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:And so I spent three days with this amazing human and it was mind blowing.
Speaker A:I still have the effects of it.
Speaker A:It definitely elevated my game.
Speaker A:And yeah, just you were like, you were so inspiring, so insightful, such a great facilitator and I'm really, really excited for this conversation.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker B:Nikeshi, it was lovely meeting you there.
Speaker B:I remember you so distinctly amongst the cohort of, I think we had about 25 leaders, next generation leaders across the country.
Speaker B:That experience was always the best part of what I did at Deloitte.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker B:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker B:Reminding me of that.
Speaker A:So my first question is so funny because I want to ask you a question, but I'm going to Ask the first question to open up this podcast as we always do, but I want to go back to the class in a second.
Speaker A:So I always ask what has been the most empowering thought that you've had of the day, this day so far?
Speaker B:Ooh, very excellent one actually.
Speaker B:I watched as, as I'm going to talk, I'm sure at some point today about, you know, my techno optimistic view on life and world.
Speaker B:I was watching an interesting podcast on, on that possible future where a gentleman proposed that both artificial intelligence and robotics, not only are they on dual exponential improvement curves, dual meaning software is developing exponentially, but hardware is developing exponentially.
Speaker B:But he proposed that at some point the consequence of these two exponential curves will result in a third exponentiality where software and hardware becomes self improving and independent of the external fact.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So to me that was, oh my God, what a brilliant, mildly scary, super exciting thought that.
Speaker B:Look, not only is this going, happening exponentially, it's double exponentially and it's going to eventually become a third exponential.
Speaker B:So I think we are, we are in for quite a ride.
Speaker A:I was, I'm five to ten years for sure.
Speaker A:And I think part of what, I love that because I, I think part of the essence that I want to get out of this interview with you, especially like exploring your mind and, and how much you're so entrenched in this is what do we need to do now in order to be able to prepare ourselves?
Speaker A:So we're not always sort of, some of our leaders are always in catch up mode, like even myself.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like right now I'm in the catch up mode with my team on AI.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like recognizing that we don't have the expertise and the breadth of experience at the table yet, we need to galvanize and quickly adopt AI practices before our entire organization is too far behind.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So love to touch on that.
Speaker A:Back to the.
Speaker A:Back to the.
Speaker A:And maybe it's actually going to lead into some of my first questions.
Speaker A:But I remember being so scared and it's, and it's interesting because what you said, like amongst 20, how many ever leaders were in the bunch?
Speaker A:You know, you do remember me, but I remember and it wasn't, I don't want to call it because I remember being so scared and wondering if I, you know, where would I, would I get lost amongst others, you know, and wherever they were.
Speaker A:But there was one thing I feel like really, I don't know if you enabled it or just, you know, but there was just such a, it was really just a coming together of Humans.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Irrespective of wherever people had been.
Speaker A:I think there was even some more junior people in the class.
Speaker A:Like I certainly didn't feel that.
Speaker A:So I'm just wondering is that typically like, do you hear others that come into that class feeling a little bit, you know, with trepidation and then how they work through it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I think that that's a common, common experience.
Speaker B:And I think especially people who are in the technology field who are senior technologists, expectations are very high on technology leaders.
Speaker B:Timing is decreasing, expectations are increasing, options are everywhere.
Speaker B:It's a very, very difficult, very challenging role to successfully play.
Speaker B:And I think that people just when they are put in a, in an environment where they can actually recognize a peer who might be going through similar challenges in a sort of friendly atmosphere that guards quickly go down.
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:And that allows actually people to then connect at a human level.
Speaker B:And I think that that has been occurring like I had the pleasure of running those sessions for I think eight or nine years.
Speaker B:That, that's a common, that's a common experience that people do come in with some, you know, guard and trepidation.
Speaker B:It's a big firm.
Speaker B:It's, you know, it's a small group of people.
Speaker B:So you are selected amongst very large cohort of people to, to join the group.
Speaker B:I said the role itself is challenging.
Speaker B:People who lead technology are, are under enormous pressure.
Speaker B:I think it actually it's a very positive relief to be surrounded by friends.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And people who are sharing common chall.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So with having worked with leaders across six continents and just kind of continue in the same vein of this.
Speaker A:What are some of universal traits that you've actually.
Speaker A:Or of impactful leadership that you've actually observed in your, in your.
Speaker B:Yeah, I would say this is an excellent question.
Speaker B:And as you know and some of your listeners might know, I've had the pleasure of, to host a series of live webcasts interviewing Canadian and international tech leaders.
Speaker B:So there is some methods behind what I'm going to say next.
Speaker B:It seems that a consistent trait is curiosity, natural curiosity.
Speaker B:And to me that has bubbled up to be probably number one predictor, that one attribute that everyone refers to.
Speaker B:So curiosity number one, that actually opens up to many other things.
Speaker B:But that is the starting point.
Speaker B:Number two is exceptional communication skill.
Speaker B:Both verbal, non verbal written, but exceptional communication skill.
Speaker B:And in that I would pack both active listening, so being productively quiet.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Behavior, being active listener, being present, but also and perhaps even more being able to intuitively understand who your audience is and Adjust your communication style and delivery, even vocabulary, so that you can clearly leave the message you want left.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So that you can be heard.
Speaker B:So that communication to me is superbly powerful.
Speaker B:Probably second biggest trait.
Speaker B:So being a superbly present listener and on the fly, adjusted communicator so that at the end of the day what you want said.
Speaker B:Stays.
Speaker A:Yes, stays.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So that will be number two trait.
Speaker B:Number three trait I would say is.
Speaker B:And maybe it's linked to the number two to a certain degree is that ability to actually empathize with others and, and, and genuinely understand where other folks are coming from.
Speaker B:Like what, what is it like to be in their shoes?
Speaker B:What is it like to view things from their vantage point?
Speaker B:That is I think very, very important trait.
Speaker B:And that I would say number four.
Speaker B:Number five.
Speaker B:And of course nothing happens without that.
Speaker B:This one is the bias for action is being comfortable in, in some unconference, some discomforts and, and having bias for action.
Speaker B:So to me those are the top, let's say four things that keep coming up and keep, keep reemerging.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we have curiosity, we have exceptional communication skills which I'm going to come back to in a minute because I really love how you broke that down and I have some, some double click questions for that.
Speaker A:Empathizing with others and understanding where others are coming from.
Speaker A:Because I think.
Speaker A:Yes, I, I love the second part because I think it's, it's needed.
Speaker A:It's not just empathizing with others, it's also.
Speaker A:And the understanding of where they're coming from.
Speaker A:And then bias for action.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker A:So in all of your experience, because I loved what you talked about the ability to.
Speaker A:So active listening then the other one, that's just, it is a hone skill because there's something in there, there's a nuance in there that I picked up on is intuitively understanding your audience and then being able to adjust your message.
Speaker A:And you said the language and the words you use.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Meaning that you might have to go, I'm assuming a little bit more intell or I'm gonna dumb it all the way down type thing, you know, so that you, so that at the end you, you, you.
Speaker A:The message is clear and it's left.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:I was going to just make one small adjustment.
Speaker B:You actually, you mentioned intellectually and then dumb it down.
Speaker B:I don't mean it's actually so.
Speaker B:I, I know what you mean, but I would say actually it's, it's, it's almost, it's not, it's not, it's not a curve that goes up.
Speaker B:It's actually almost a bell curve when you.
Speaker B:On the seniority of folks you speak with.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So it's, it needs to be.
Speaker B:So it's a bell curve instead of the logarithmic curve from, you know, dumbed down or simplified version to more complex in the middle to again, simplified at the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker B:But it's figuring out who is on that other side and where on that curve do they actually fit in terms of what they need to get out of your message?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm assuming because the rooms are diverse, that can happen all in.
Speaker B:Senior board director who has spent 30 years in finance, for example, would not, would not know and understand technology language.
Speaker B:So you have to explain complex technological things, technical things, in a simple, you know, English language that a person who is intelligent, smart, educated, experienced, but not knowledgeable of this topic still follow and understand.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And doesn't feel, you know, doesn't feel like you treated them as if they are not intelligent.
Speaker B:Because that, that is, that is the, that is a dangerous line.
Speaker B:How do you simplify the message just enough and not simplify so much?
Speaker B:The person across of you feels that you think they're stupid.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Or that you lost context, like some context of the messages you're trying to.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:To me that's like, how did, how do you find that line and, and be on that line?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So in your journeys or even in watching, like I was even following you during the, the election and stuff like that, things that you're posting, but in your journeys and people that you listen to, who someone that you would say, does the comm.
Speaker A:Like, who are your favorite top communicators?
Speaker B:Oh, that's a very interesting one.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:I actually, I loved this big cliche, but I have to say it.
Speaker B:Steve Jobs had a absolutely remarkable way to communicate his vision and it was powerful.
Speaker B:So to me, when I think about, in the business context, I would call Steve Jobs, I would call him.
Speaker B:You know, I had way, way decades ago.
Speaker B:One of my first management roles was at Starbucks of all places, in Vancouver at the point of the first expansion from United States from Seattle to Vancouver.
Speaker B:This is of mid-90s and Howard Schultz, the famous CEO of Starbucks, because we were their first expansion from, from the United States into a foreign country.
Speaker B:And it was essentially, you know, two hours away.
Speaker B:He would be coming to talk to us from Seattle.
Speaker B:And I experienced at multiple occasions what a powerful inspirational leader this is.
Speaker B:And this is Before Howard Schultz became Howard Schultz that we now know as, you know, a man who made Starbucks.
Speaker B:So to me, that left an imprint forever.
Speaker B:Like having experienced Kim in his best, in his prime, just before Starbucks explodes all over the world.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That was phenomenal.
Speaker B:On.
Speaker B:So, anyways, those are the two that come up that people will recognize.
Speaker B:I have another one that I have a pleasure of knowing.
Speaker B:Duncan Sinclair.
Speaker B:I gotta call his name out.
Speaker B:He's the chair of.
Speaker B:The chair of Deloitte's.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That's why I know this name.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Duncan Sinclair has mastered the ability to talk about any topic that you throw at him in such a elegant, smooth, frictionless, engaging way that I have to give him heads up for being probably the best public speaker I have ever experienced.
Speaker B:Live on topic that is not prepared, but flows just like I would call Steve Jobs on his mastery in engaging with public.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And so myself as a public speaker, and one of the things I often do is obviously knowing my own message, knowing how to craft it, understanding what it is I need to deliver, and being able to land a plane.
Speaker A:But I also supplement that by listening to.
Speaker A:Like, I asked this question not only just for myself, but for listeners, is that there's something about listening to really great orators and how they deliver messaging and then sort of picking things that you liked about them and sort of blending them into a beautiful tapestry to inform your own sort of delivery style.
Speaker A:But what might be some other.
Speaker A:Because I'm touching on this, because I think that these skills.
Speaker A:And I, you know, I could ask you, like, do you feel that these four could have lived 10 years ago and will they survive another 10 years?
Speaker A:To me, I feel that these are transcendent.
Speaker A:Like, these are.
Speaker A:These are skills that if you don't have them today, you really need to quickly start to adopt them.
Speaker A:I think we've been talking about.
Speaker A:I think curiosity probably sped up exponentially during the COVID period.
Speaker A:I think a lot of more leaders were talking about the importance of curiosity and empathy.
Speaker A:I think leadership, like, exact, like, exceptional communication skills have always existed.
Speaker A:I think it's.
Speaker A:I think it's a little bit more complex now because of the state of the world.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But what would you say, like, on the.
Speaker A:On these four, if.
Speaker A:If I think they all are needed, but if I had to sort of pick one to really start to.
Speaker A:To focus more on, to be able to lead effectively, you know, going like now in the next, you know, I'm gonna say one to three years, which one.
Speaker A:Would you.
Speaker A:Of those four I would say.
Speaker B:I would actually say curiosity.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I would say curiosity and here is why I think that we are embarking on.
Speaker B:We are embarking or we have already embarked on, on a societal, economic and political transformation of society that I don't think we have never experienced before.
Speaker B:The next 10 years, the next 20 years I think are going to be as transm.
Speaker B:Transformative to us as our event, as the moment we settle from being hunter gatherers into a agricultural society at the end of the last ice age.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And to me, the primary survival skill that people all need to have is intense curiosity to understand what is going on, to understand options in front of you, to be able to make best both strategic and tactical decisions.
Speaker B:So to me, curiosity is going to be probably out of these four.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:Think most important to, to because it, and like in it, in it is embedded, you know, focus, attention, willingness to learn, willingness to take on some risk, willingness to take a look at, at something from a different angle.
Speaker B:Like all of those things are kind of rolled under this attribute of curiosity, curious mind.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker B:Because things are going to be changing so rapidly.
Speaker B:I think that those who are not curious will find themselves potentially like lost, lost in.
Speaker B:Lost in space and time, unable to understand what has happened.
Speaker B:And how do I now, where do I now fit to make.
Speaker B:Curiosity would be number, number one, if you were to ask me to say number two, it's called.
Speaker B:It's action.
Speaker B:It's action.
Speaker B:It's just taking action.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's a great segue because my next question was with the executive coaching, with a lot of the work that you do, how do you help leaders move from strategy to meaningful execution, especially in more complex type of settings?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I would start with a holistic view of the personalistic view and let me just maybe take one step back and make a statement that many people will probably, when they hear it first, are not going to agree with.
Speaker B:I do not buy work life balance concept.
Speaker B:I think that work life balance only works for those who actually truly have to be at work from, you know, nine to five, you know, very well defined, you know, work, work situations for people who are in the knowledge industry.
Speaker B:I think this is.
Speaker B:There's only one balance and that's life balance.
Speaker B:And inside your life you have your relationships, you have your family, friends, hobbies, interests, work and so on and so forth.
Speaker B:So first to me, when you look at a leader and trying to help them take their visions into action is to actually appreciate that you're talking and you're Actually working with a human being who cannot emotionally separate their life and their work.
Speaker B:They bring work to life and life to work because this is the way things simply, truthfully are.
Speaker B:So first is to actually think and understand who is the.
Speaker B:Who is the person, who is the human being that I'm working with.
Speaker B:Second is to understand, to understand what is the proper balance of time that's required for this individual to succeed in their role, both from strategic perspective and roles that they need to play in that strategic front, but also on the tactical, operational front, making sure that we uncover any potential blind spots that could lead to ultimate failure.
Speaker B:The next thing that we do is we need to appreciate that there is art in prioritizing where to focus on, and there is a limited amount of things that we could productively focus on.
Speaker B:So everyone that I work with, by definition, is a successful leader.
Speaker B:That's a starting point, and I'm blessed with that.
Speaker B:So the people that I work with, by definition, are successful and smart, and they can easily identify 100 things that should be done.
Speaker B:But how do you actually figure out, out of these 100 things that should be done, what are going to be the top three to five that you need to burn your personal calories on?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then how do you effectively distribute and delegate the other 95?
Speaker B:And then in what level of delegation do they fit?
Speaker B:Is there a, is there a level of delegation that requires hand holding?
Speaker B:There is a require of delegation, require you flying over.
Speaker B:And there might be a level of delegation that actually does not require you to keep an eye on that at all, barring some unexpected circumstance.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's helping them truly prioritize.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then, and then it's actually the, the strategy, the tactic here is working backwards, working backwards from what success means, what does success looks like for.
Speaker B:Imagine for each one of those top three to five things that resurfaces, things that truly you need to personally focus on, what does great look like at the end of six months or at the end of the year?
Speaker B:And then let's work backwards, backwards from that which will help you understand what are the milestones, what are the inter.
Speaker B:Interrelated, perhaps dependencies and so on and so on.
Speaker A:Might there be another point as well, though?
Speaker A:Is the ability that if you picture five out of those hundred knowing when you might have gone one wrong and pivoting.
Speaker B:Oh, so good.
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:And hence, Hence the check in, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, hence the check in.
Speaker B:This, this has to be.
Speaker B:So essentially what we have, well, work backwards into now is a conversation about essentially what it is that I'm doing right now with my new enterprise, with my new adventure as I call it, the Summit Leadership Alliance.
Speaker B:So exactly that it's actually helping people, helping leaders figure out what should be their moves so they can succeed in the short and midterm in their current role, in the current mandate, but making sure that that success is actually pivoted towards the ultimate objective, ultimate purpose of this person, whether it's their life purpose or career.
Speaker B:Purp.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then helping, helping those leaders extract those priorities, assess objectively, you know, how confident are they they will be able to succeed.
Speaker B:Where are the gaps?
Speaker B:How do we close those gaps?
Speaker B:And then which is really important, sticking around to help them do exactly what you mentioned.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Because just one, one more sentence and I'll give you the mic back.
Speaker B:One thing that people often forget is that the leadership development is not an event.
Speaker B:It's not a course.
Speaker B:It's not a, it's right.
Speaker B:It's not a, it's not a three day course or a watching a corporate E learning, you know, four hour session and repeating it every two.
Speaker B:It's, it's, it's an actual effort that is continuous.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's a continuous effort and it's an effort that actually never ends.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it shouldn't.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Huh.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Me so excited.
Speaker A:Like there's so much.
Speaker A:It's like a few days ago I was listening to, I was in an interview, I was listening to an interview.
Speaker A:It was the EVP CTO at cibc.
Speaker A:He was also meeting with a pretty senior person in TD and then there was also a senior lawyer from, from PwC that were on the panel and interesting.
Speaker A:So I, when when asked I found that all three of them said that one of the biggest things that they're having to solve for right now, when you even sort of, you think about all the technology disruptions and all this, any and geopolitical and economic challenges that exist.
Speaker A:It was talent.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Not having.
Speaker A:So in your travels because you like you just mentioned having to work, what are you seeing?
Speaker A:That there are some similar complex issues, challenges that leaders are having to solve now.
Speaker B:You mean specifically with talent?
Speaker A:Well, no, just what are you saying?
Speaker A:Yeah, for them, for those three.
Speaker B:I think that, I think that actually I would agree the talent is an issue and it's a systemic issue that exists I think across the whole developed world, let's say.
Speaker B:But talent is an issue.
Speaker B:So I would agree with that.
Speaker B:I think that we are walking into a very interesting moment in our, again, I guess socioeconomic life.
Speaker B:We are going to soon be looking at talent from two perspectives, the human talents and the digital talent.
Speaker B:And I think that what's going to be happening is the role of IT departments is going to be changing very, very interestingly as, as this new technology is coming at us.
Speaker B:And I think that at the end of the, at the end of the day what will happen is that IT department and Agile department are going to be very, very close to, with each other, HR orchestrating the human talent and IT orchestrating the digital talent.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That is I think where we are heading.
Speaker B:So this issue with, you know, scarcity of human talent will be partially solved by the emergence of digital talent.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then we are going to all be essentially living and operating in corporations that are combinations of digital like, you know, soft tissue, human carbon and, and, and digital silica employees.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's where this is heading.
Speaker B:And then it'll be the third thing that is going to come into the picture very soon will be then humanoid robots that are going to be entered, entering into that picture.
Speaker B:So we will have, you know, we will have digital talents, we'll have a human talent and we have robotic talent.
Speaker B:All of these three pools of talent will be integrated and working together, I guess.
Speaker B:And that'll be that I think is the future we are heading to.
Speaker A:Wow, I love that.
Speaker A:I actually really love that.
Speaker A:I haven't.
Speaker A:That's very insightful.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna.
Speaker A:Something that you described yourself as is a chief ally and want to understand what that term, like how did you walk into it or how did you get called to it?
Speaker A:I'm going to say and what does it mean to you and how does this shape your approach?
Speaker B:So I mentioned earlier when we were describing how challenging the role of an IT leader is, when you take that to the top executive that orchestrates the it for the whole enterprise.
Speaker B:It's a very lonely job.
Speaker B:It's a very lonely job.
Speaker B:Variety of reasons.
Speaker B:I mentioned some, but there are others.
Speaker B:So let's say first is the expectation is skyrocketing because now everybody from the board to shareholder and employees are looking at technology to really help us win in the competitive race out there.
Speaker B:For every enterprise, public sector, private sector, non profit, everybody is looking at technology as a way to differentiate, succeed, grow and so on and so forth.
Speaker B:So those individuals, therefore they are looked to to be part of, you know, part of the solution.
Speaker B:So expectations are very high.
Speaker B:The timing, time, time is shrinking, complexity around them.
Speaker B:Technology innovation is happening now like breakthroughs are happening weekly.
Speaker B:Breakthroughs that would otherwise Be a news for the whole year are now happening weekly.
Speaker B:So and there is so much of it.
Speaker B:So every when you are at the top, the spend that technology spend generally across, across all industry on technology has been increasing, will continue to increase.
Speaker B:So these leaders have increasingly, increasingly larger wallets.
Speaker B:So everybody's after them.
Speaker B:Vendors, partners, suppliers, contractor, all the people with great idea, every like it's a very, very challenging job.
Speaker B:And then on top of that, in whichever enterprise you sit at the executive table, you are most likely to be the one person out with a specific unique skill set and knowledge.
Speaker B:Everybody around the table, marketing operations guy, cfo, CEO, they all understand and know the business that they're in, whether it's logistic and shipping or it's software development.
Speaker B:But you as a techie key also find yourself oftentimes out of that crowd.
Speaker B:So you are kind of you, you need to be there extra social and connected to actually show up as that peer.
Speaker B:Which brings in additional element of being lonely.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So to me the job is very challenging and can be very lonely.
Speaker B:And what these senior executives actually needs to have, should have is a friendly ally by their side.
Speaker B:Somebody whose true interest is their personal success.
Speaker B:Who is looking after your success, ultimately happiness, ultimately health, longevity and success across decades, not months.
Speaker B:So I have observed this firsthand in talking with people that I work with, senior leaders, they need allies, Right.
Speaker B:So to me, that was the first inspiration.
Speaker B:And then I said, well, how is it different from a consultant?
Speaker B:Well, it includes consultant if you have an ally.
Speaker B:We are meeting each other as peers.
Speaker B:So yes, I, I am a consultant as well.
Speaker B:Well, how about coach?
Speaker B:Well, that, that's true actually.
Speaker B:And that too.
Speaker B:And a mentor.
Speaker B:And mentor.
Speaker B:Yes, that too.
Speaker B:So I used the word ally to capture multiple different things of how I want to show up to my client.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I want to come to, I want to.
Speaker B:First of all, I want to be, I want to create a relationship that is based on honesty and trust.
Speaker B:So first and foremost, the relationship needs to be candid and transparent and peer like.
Speaker B:So first of all, I cannot come across to my clients neither as a subservient service provider, the yes man, or an arrogant, you know, a hole who knows it.
Speaker B:I have to find a way to come across to this person as a genuine person.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So what skills would we pull that in from.
Speaker B:From to to do that?
Speaker B:Skills of actual coaching and creating a, you know, social safety.
Speaker B:So creating a safe, confidential coaching environment.
Speaker B:That's one element of being an ally.
Speaker B:Mentoring, sharing my experiences is how I would have, you know, Approached a particular issue.
Speaker B:That's a mentorship element.
Speaker B:That's too.
Speaker B:That there's a counseling element, of course, being present, being there, available for person to actually express themselves honestly and deeply and be privileged to hear that and hold that for them.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But then the ability to advise them because I actually do have con.
Speaker B:I spent 20 years at Deloitte leading tech strategy practice, you know, in Western Canada.
Speaker B:And so actually be the advisor, but also to be a challenger to call bullshit when bullshit needs to be called.
Speaker B:Pardon my friend, I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know if we need to be editing any of this.
Speaker B:But you know, so all of this really, when you combine it is a different kind of relationship.
Speaker B:I would describe that as an ally relationship.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:So I would warmly advise every technology executive to actively think about establishing a scaffolding around them their personal adv board.
Speaker B:And in that personal advisory board they should have an ally or few.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So that's the idea behind the Summit Leadership Alliance.
Speaker B:And there was one more idea, right.
Speaker B:I cannot do this alone.
Speaker B:I mean I can, but it will be for a very, very small number of clients.
Speaker B:So what I try to create with the alliance is to bring in experts.
Speaker B:Experts who, from those who bring specific domain expertise like personal and leadership, branding, executive communication, storytelling, to those allies who have been CIOs themselves and might be semi retired.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And create a combination of allies that will be a perfect fit into a leader in their team's group.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So if we can start creating this mutual supportive network that will be beneficial for everyone.
Speaker B:And so to me, that's the idea behind this particular model that I'm calling the Summit Leadership Alliance.
Speaker B:And I can tell you what is actually driving me to do this is I believe that our country is going to be in a position to win or lose.
Speaker B:Well, obviously based on how collective of our economy operates, how all of our organizations, private, public and nonprofit, actually individually succeed, that's the sum total of our collective success.
Speaker B: And in: Speaker B:So any enterprise will ultimately lose and win based on how effective that their strategy is executed on top of technology.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So while it is really important in every nation, every country, Canada, including of course to have tech innovators, people who come up with new things, it is actually multiple times more impactful to build an army of world class tech leaders who can individually help them move their organization's needle forward.
Speaker B:Right now, the final thread of this, when you work with and everybody who listens to this would, I think, would empathize with what I'm going to say next.
Speaker B:When you help a leader at work succeed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:When you help them succeed, that person is automatically a happier person too.
Speaker B:A happier and a successful person is more likely going to take better care of themselves and others and others.
Speaker B:So a successful person at work should be a happier person in work and should be happier person at home too.
Speaker B:So their family atmosphere ought to improve.
Speaker B:Hopefully now when they go to work as a happy, successful person, they will like the ripple effect will be felt around their immediate team.
Speaker B:And happy, successful, energized, empowered teams actually move organizations forward.
Speaker B:And successful organizations live in our communities.
Speaker B:And we all know a successful organization or community makes communities stronger, safer, more prosperous, better.
Speaker B:And who are we in a country as a country then, you know, collection of communities from coast to coast to coast.
Speaker B:So to me, I'm trying to pull this thread that says let's, let's figure out how do we tap into brilliant Canadian executive leadership ecosystem, the alliance, and focus it onto enroll executives and the next generation coming up and create this symbiosis of allyship where we are helping everybody succeed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hey, and their teams and their teams behind them like that is this optimistic upward avalanche that I would like to create.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:I have, I have a.
Speaker A:I have one more question to ask you.
Speaker A:But that is such a great alignment because empowered, my skin, a mission is built upon empowered people.
Speaker A:Empowered people.
Speaker A:And what you just described almost as like that domino effect that happens.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Oh, very good.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:So thank you.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna.
Speaker A:Just before I go into rapid thrivers, is there a message or a topic that you feel called to share or opine on that I have not sort of tapped you for yet?
Speaker B:Yes, there is.
Speaker B:There is.
Speaker B:I am, I am, I am a proponent of the age of Abundance.
Speaker B:It's a specific philosophy that is a thinking merging that's.
Speaker B:That has a sort of technology optimism at its core.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That proposes that we as species are on the brink of achieving the actual age of abundance.
Speaker B:Getting out of the age of scarcity that has defined us since we became human beings on Earth, and that this transformation is happening right now.
Speaker B:And my belief is that the whole geopolitical movements is really a competition between two alternative systems of governance to figure out which system is going to ultimately result in the age of abundance for its populations first.
Speaker B:And I think that's actually the race that we are in.
Speaker B:And that what's happening right now, all this disruption and all of this madness is I hope the storm before the calm.
Speaker B:And that if we play this out well, and we should play this off well because we have all ingredients are known that we should all come out as major winners and arrive to this age of abundance.
Speaker B:That's what I wanted to mention.
Speaker A:Age of abundance.
Speaker A:Okay, thank you.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna.
Speaker A:Well, I.
Speaker A:Look, I knew you were going to be so brilliant and I was like, oh my God, I could keep going with you, but I'm going to take you through rapid thrivers.
Speaker A:When you think of someone who inspires you, who comes first to mind.
Speaker B:Oh my God, this is going to be completely different.
Speaker B:Paul McCartney.
Speaker A:Oh, I have to ask why.
Speaker B:He is a man who has changed society positively through his music and the Beatles three times and continued to have love as his ultimate purpose in life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think it's incredible.
Speaker A:That's incredible.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's a daily activity that helps you stay empowered?
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker B:This is an interesting one.
Speaker B:I actually.
Speaker B:So I wish I could say something more profound than what I will say, but what I will say is that every single day I dedicate at least one hour to actually sit on YouTube and listen to interesting podcasts on topics that interest me from geopolitics to AI and robotics.
Speaker B:So at least an hour most of the time, actually that will seep into two to three where I am intensely, curiously listening to learn and listening to be provoked.
Speaker A:I love that I have another question because often people ask, and this one came.
Speaker A:How do you choose?
Speaker A:Like, how do you know?
Speaker A:How do you know what today?
Speaker A:Because sometimes it happens to me.
Speaker A:I open up.
Speaker A:I'm very much like you.
Speaker A:I open up YouTube in the morning at the gym.
Speaker A:So I do do two things at the same time.
Speaker A:I work out and I try to learn through that time.
Speaker A:But what's your process to know what you need to listen to on a given day?
Speaker B:So it's a good, good one.
Speaker B:I think that for those of us who are actually doing this, you, you eventually you learn within the first probably five to six minutes on, on whether or not you might be getting something.
Speaker A:Out of this conversation.
Speaker B:So I think that, so it's so obviously over time I develop my, my playlist, right?
Speaker B:Just like on LinkedIn, people that I know that I follow who pop up on my feed.
Speaker B:Eventually similar things happen.
Speaker B:But I do have curiosity and I will go to the, to the, to the, to the new channels trying to find out what's new and interesting.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And in those, I, I have now developed, I don't know if it's a hunch or a skill that, you know, even based on the production quality and sometimes superb production quality would actually allude to not, not a very insightful conversation followed.
Speaker B:So I think that there is an, there is an element there of finding those who are generally authentically interesting people.
Speaker B:And they are, they are everywhere.
Speaker B:It's really, it's fantastic.
Speaker A:Thanks.
Speaker B:We live in a crazy moment.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's a book that stands out that really has shaped you, empowered you?
Speaker B:So what shaped my thinking in the last decade actually was Steven Pinker, Enlightenment Now.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not.
Speaker A:Is it the white book behind you?
Speaker B:No, no, it's the blue one.
Speaker A:The blue one.
Speaker A:Okay, that one there.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Enlightenment now.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And so his proposition is that we actually live in the best of times, in the best of times, on all measures of human flourishing.
Speaker B:Now to be frank, like this book is now maybe 15 years old, but the concept was actually very important to understand that out of the 12 measures of human flourishing which are established through United nations, on every single measure, every, every single one, we are seeing dramatic progress over the.
Speaker B:And that, that progress started effectively about 500 years ago with the moment of Renaissance and enlightenment.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, so that, and, and to me, this was so powerfully inspirational evidence that it really inspired me to want to do something beyond just for me and my family to do something bigger and better and make impact that will go beyond, you know, people who share my last name around me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So that to me was a very impactful and interesting book.
Speaker B:Start with why by subsidizing exceptional.
Speaker B:And also I really, I really love what Yuval Noah Harari has researched, done and published in his last 12 to 15 years, starting with the Sapiens, the book that put him on the map.
Speaker B:The Sapiens and then Homo deus and others.
Speaker B:Now Nexus, which actually has a very interesting perspective on our business of information technology.
Speaker B:So he actually talks about information networks in the, in the book Nexus and he draws it all the way to the very, very beginning of storytelling amongst us right in the plains of Africa, telling stories to each other amongst families and friends.
Speaker B:And like he, he's actually proposes and I agree with him that it is our ability to imagine, imagine, imagine non realistic presence, to imagine the future and be able to articulate it is actually what made humans so successful.
Speaker B:We could Actually collaborate in large scale.
Speaker B:But he proposes that, that storytelling around that fire was effectively the first information technology.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker A:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:That's the first information technology.
Speaker B:We leverage storytelling by the elders to actually inform others, compel them to action, keep them together.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that's very interesting because if you think of it through that perspective, you suddenly say, well, yeah, I'm in it.
Speaker B:It is not a 78 year old industry.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a, you know, 350,000-year-old.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What was the name of the book?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:It's called Nexus.
Speaker A:Nexus.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:I'm gonna put all.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And what is an app that.
Speaker A:That helps you either like that you use often helps you stay empowered.
Speaker B:Oh, good question.
Speaker B:So I can tell I'm an avid.
Speaker B:So work wise, I'm an avid LinkedIn user.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm active there.
Speaker B:I'm act.
Speaker B:I am on YouTube also very frequently listening, mostly listening.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I've actually become a.
Speaker B:So what I do now is I, I subscribe to both ChatGPT, Gemini and Grok.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I'm triangulating between those three and so that's sort of how I am pressure testing my ideas.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so I would say if I was to choose the three top apps, I would say that I'm, you know, the triangulation between ChatGPT, Grok and Gemini and then LinkedIn and YouTube have become proxy.
Speaker B:In other words, I work remotely.
Speaker B:I am starting a virtual company.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I would say that YouTube and LinkedIn would be my proxy for almost.
Speaker B:For the office chatter.
Speaker A:I got it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I no longer have the privilege to go to the office and be surrounded with 200 people, you know, in the lunchroom.
Speaker B:So to me, me, LinkedIn became like a proxy for that.
Speaker A:Like, that's a good one.
Speaker A:And last.
Speaker A:Last of the rapid thrivers is what is a misconception that you feel that people have of you as a.
Speaker A:I'm gonna say personally, as they are in your brilliance.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because you're pretty brilliant.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:So I, I actually there is one and I've heard this multiple times from multiple people.
Speaker B:So I know it's true.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker B:But I also know that people tell me afterwards that they realize it's actually not true.
Speaker B:But so here it is.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a great.
Speaker B:So that I'm intimidating.
Speaker B:That I can be.
Speaker B:That I can't be intimidating.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So there we go.
Speaker A:I would say I'm honest.
Speaker A:I would say that I have wanted to ask you to be on the podcast since I was like, probably day one of the course, I was like.
Speaker B:Oh, there we go.
Speaker A:You won't want to sit down.
Speaker A:See, he's not going to want to sit down with me.
Speaker A:And then I did.
Speaker A:I got my courage after your interview with Dominic and I just felt like that was, that was my end.
Speaker B:Of course, of course, of course.
Speaker A:I was like, he's doing podcasts.
Speaker A:I'm gonna ask him to be on my podcast.
Speaker B:Well, there we go.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:But I actually don't think you.
Speaker A:I, I mean, you have so much style.
Speaker A:I think your bow tie helps break the intimidation and brings you more into the love.
Speaker A:Yeah, the love.
Speaker A:And your personality is extremely contagious.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:So where do we find more of you?
Speaker A:Well, you're on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:Where else do we find?
Speaker B:So, yes, that's right.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker B:So I am on LinkedIn and productive.
Speaker B:I also have had the pleasure of hosting this.
Speaker B:We call them tectonic conversations.
Speaker B:So I know, I've checked.
Speaker B:It's the only tectonic conversations channel on YouTube.
Speaker B:So for those who are interested, they can subscribe to my YouTube channel and then you can follow me on LinkedIn.
Speaker B:And obviously, I just mentioned I'm starting this new adventure, the Summit Leadership alliance, and very soon I'm going to start actually introducing this idea that I just shared with you to broader audiences.
Speaker B:And I will be doing that through LinkedIn and YouTube, so people will be able to learn more.
Speaker B:And of course, if they want to chat more about, you know, working with me and my allies.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:For the collective success, then I am very keen to hear from people like that.
Speaker A:I love that collective co investment, I find.
Speaker A:So as a parting question on the podcast, I also ask.
Speaker A:It's called Empowered in My Skin.
Speaker A:And would love, would love to actually know what that means to you.
Speaker B:It's to have the courage to be authentic.
Speaker B:Yes, it's the courage to be authentic is, is what it means to me.
Speaker B:That doesn't necessarily mean, you know, be stupid about it, but it's a, it's, it's courage to be authentic.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Thank you so much, Delvor.
Speaker A:This was such a pleasure.
Speaker A:I appreciate you and I could have gone on and on.
Speaker A:So there might be a part two sometime at some point.
Speaker A:But to everyone, to everyone that's listening and watching, this is where I have to sadly say, we're out.
Speaker A:Bye, bye.
Speaker B:Bye bye.
Speaker A:There you have it.
Speaker A:I trust that you are feeling more empowered in your skin.
Speaker A:As the late Dr.
Speaker A:Maya Angelou said, when you get, you give.
Speaker A:When you learn, you teach.
Speaker A:So it would mean so much for us at Empower to My Skin, Inc.
Speaker A:If you share this episode and tag us or teach an insight that you took from today's episode on your social and tag us, feel free to leave us a review over at itunes and follow us on social media at Empowered In My Skin.
Speaker A:Finally, remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
